Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world. —
Napoleon Bonaparte
Emmy award-winning former ABC News Beijing bureau chief and China expert Chito Sta. Romana was a student activist who went into political exile in Beijing starting in the 1970s martial law era.
He studied liberal arts and commerce at De La Salle University, where he was student council president in 1969-70, took graduate courses in development economics at the University of the Philippines, studied Mandarin at the Beijing Language and Culture University and earned his master’s in international relations at Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy in Massachusetts.
Sta. Romana has covered many historic events in modernizing China for ABC News, from the 1989 Tiananmen demonstrations, the 2001 US-China crisis over the Hainan plane incident in 2001, the Sichuan earthquake, the 2008 Beijing Olympics and the 2009 Beijing summit meeting of US President Barack Obama and China President Hu Jintao. He also worked with ABC anchors like Peter Jennings, Ted Koppel, Diane Sawyer and Bob Woodruff when they reported from China.
Chito Sta. Romana has retired and resettled in Makati City in December 2010 and is now a sought-after resource speaker on China. He recently gave Philippine STAR an exclusive three-hour interview. Excerpts:
PHILIPPINE STAR: How long have you been away in exile, ever since you and other student activists visited China before martial law was declared?
CHITO STA. ROMANA: I was away for 37 years, from August 1971 to February 1986. I was part of a Filipino youth delegation invited by the China Friendship Association. Due to the change in the political situation in the Philippines, I was forced to stay in China where I eventually decided to study and seek employment.
You were the Manila regional head of the National Union of Students of the Philippines. Wasn’t the late famous Atenean student leader Edgar Jopson with NUSP too?
Yes, Edjop was my contemporary and we became rivals. I was head of NUSP for Manila, and he was head of NUSP national. We had differences after the big student demonstration of January 1970 in front of Congress.
Was that what I saw in pictures of protesters with a black coffin outside Congress?
Yes, it was a black coffin shaped like a crocodile. That started what was called the First Quarter Storm of 1970, a series of demonstrations against the Marcos regime.
Home at last:After 37 years of being a political exile, studying, then working in China, Chito Sta. Romana is happy to be back in his own country. Here he enjoys relaxing by the fountains of Serendra at The Fort. Photo by MANNY MARCELO
Were your differences with Edjop ideological, because you were then with the left and he was considered conservative due to his Ateneo Catholic background?
Our differences eventually became ideological. I was then the left wing, and he was considered right wing, the moderate group. The issue was the Constitutional Convention or Concon.
Edjop saw the Concon as the way to reform Philippine society, but our position was that we had no illusions about the Concon and that then President Marcos was just going to use the Concon to his advantage.
Isn’t it ironic that I heard Edjop was decried by militant students as “too moderate,” yet he later became a Communist revolutionary and was killed at age 34 in 1982 by the military? What happened?
When Marcos declared martial law, the Concon was abolished, so Edjop got disillusioned. He started to join the underground, because Edjop was sincere.
What was his reaction on learning that you and other student activists like Jaime FlorCruz were in political exile in China?
Sumunod pa siya (He even followed) to China in 1971. He was touring Beijing with his own NUSP youth delegation and we talked. I could already sense then that he was searching. That was our last meeting, it was in an office of the China Travel Service across the Beijing Hotel.
Tianamen Square souvenir shot: Chito and son Norman pose for the camera with huge portraits of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in 1984.
I admire Edjop. I considered him a friend, and he died a martyr. He sincerely followed his convictions.
Is it true what I read, that during a heated meeting with student demonstrators in Malacañang Palace, then President Marcos called Edjop “the son of a grocer” in a heated tongue-lashing?
Yes, he was called that because Edjop challenged President Marcos to put down in writing that he would not run for president again after his second term. Irritated, Marcos said: “Who are you to tell me what to do, you are only the son of a grocer!” The Jopson family used to own a grocery business in Manila.
Did you also meet with President Marcos personally?
Yes, I had met President Marcos during his several negotiation meetings with student leaders then. It was at least two or three times before 1970. Marcos certainly started out as a promising leader. He knew how to talk the talk such as the need for democracy and nationalism. President Marcos and Imelda were then like the Kennedys of Asia, but the problem was in the second term.
There were controversies about election cheating such as the use of guns, goons and gold. There were also issues before about his sending Philippine troops to the unpopular Vietnam War, supposedly as non-combatants, including among them Fidel Ramos and Jose Almonte.
Do you agree President Marcos was a political genius, though controversial?
Definitely, Marcos was brilliant, but he was not a Lee Kuan Yew or a Deng Xiaoping because his government became too corrupt. He really took care of his family and he forgot about the nation.
Do you think Marcos could have been a Lee Kuan Yew?
With foreign youth delegates in China: Posing for a class picture in 1971 in front of Mao Tse-tung's house in Hunan are Filipino students Chito (seated, 4th from left), Jaime FlorCruz (3rd from left) and Ericson Baculinao (standing, last row, 4th from left).
I thought Marcos had a promising beginning. Even in the early years of martial law, I have to admit there were initial successes. But in the end, corruption and repression did him in. He could have been a Lee Kuan Yew.
What about Marcos’ foreign policy, was he very successful?
In foreign policy, Marcos basically wanted to take advantage of the presence of US military bases here to keep himself in power, but he himself overestimated US support for his regime. That was one of the reasons for his downfall, because the US will only stick with you for as long as you are still useful to US interests.
Who were the other student activists of your era?
Jerry Barican of UP, Gary Olivar who was then a young freshman or sophomore student activist known as the l’enfant terible of UP because he was so brilliant. There was a student leader, but not an activist, surnamed Jardeleza of UP Iloilo who would go to UP Law and into corporate law.
There was Tony Tagamolila, UP Collegian editor in chief, who died a martyr’s death in the underground during martial law. His name is now in the Bantayog ng Mga Bayani in Quezon City, along with that of Edjop and others.
Another student activist was Caloy Tayag, he was a Benedictine priest of San Beda, but he left the religious order and joined the Christians for National Liberation. Caloy was with us in China, then he returned to the Philippines and went underground. He disappeared sometime in 1974 or 1975, becoming one of the martial law era desaparecidos. Up to now, nobody knows what happened to him. Caloy was very curious, very intense and passionate, but he had a contemplative side to him, medyo (a bit) philosophical. He likes to think deeply before talking.
Another activist with us in China was Ros Galang, then a young Manila Times reporter. She was able to return, then went underground, and she eventually died of cancer.
Winter in China:Family man Chito with wife Nancy and sons Norman and Christopher.
Are you still an activist or an idealist now, since I think the Philippines is still essentially semi-feudal in our politics and with so many still in poverty?
Forty years have passed. There’s still something burning… What I want to focus on nowadays is to help our society to know China, whether it’s people in government, NGOs or media. I really want our people to better understand modern-day China. I hope I could be a bridge of understanding, because our diplomatic relations have deteriorated.
Is it true that after the 1986 military-backed EDSA uprising, you almost came back for good but you eventually ended up working for ABC News in Beijing?
It was just a coincidence. I was enrolled in the master’s program for my MA in international relations at Fletcher School, which was administered by Harvard and Tufts universities. My paper was on China’s Open Door policy, in particular Hainan. In Fletcher, I studied international politics, international economics and international law. I attended seminars on Chinese foreign policy and also the UN Law of the Sea.
My plan after EDSA was to come back to work for government, the private sector, or for an NGO, but in late 1987 the situation here in the Philippines was unstable. Back in Beijing in late 1987 or 1988, I decided to freelance for America’s ABC News, then soon after China’s former Communist Party General Secretary Hu Yaobang died in April 1989.
I read Hu Yaobang’s death sparked the controversial student protests in Beijing?
Before his death, Hu Yaobang was ousted from power in China due to 1986 and 1987 small-scale student protests; he was blamed. Hu was originally being groomed to be Deng Xiaoping’s successor. After Hu’s death, the students in Beijing took to the streets to mourn him.
ABC News assigned me to cover it, so my news team and I marched with the students on April 15, but we were there to cover the event as journalists. I was with a camera crew of two people — a cameraman and a sound man.
We walked with the students from Peking University to Tiananmen Square. There were several marches. Those were the biggest scale demonstrations since the Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976.
Western media saw the student protests as a clamor for political democracy, but wasn’t it due mainly to China’s economic slowdown and also anger at corruption?
Economic problems were the basis for the protests, like inflation, corruption and unemployment. China was then only shifting from a centrally planned economy to the use of market forces. They were then tinkering with market forces, which led to inflation.
How many people died when the protests were eventually suppressed?
The official estimate was somewhere between 100 to 200 deaths, but the Chinese Red Cross stopped counting at 2,000.
Who was the leader who ordered the clampdown using the military?
Deng Xiaoping was the high leader, but the decision has to be that of the government under Li Peng. He was the premier then, it was Li Peng who declared martial law.
I think it was Singapore statesman Lee Kuan Yew who complained that it took the Chinese government so long to step in and stop the chaotic demonstrations?
The reason is they were divided, between Zhao Ziyang who had replaced Hu Yaobang as the party’s general secretary. Zhao was more conciliatory towards the student protesters, while the hardline faction of the Chinese government wanted a crackdown.
So they later learned their lesson after this June 4, 1989 event. They now have this policy that it is important to nip any protests in the bud, act early at the first sign of protests.
Before the crackdown, I remember reading that Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev visited Deng Xiaoping in Beijing?
At that point, Gorbachev had a summit meeting with Deng Xiaoping, but Gorbachev couldn’t be welcomed at Tiananmen Square because of the student protesters. So it was a big embarrassment. The welcoming ceremony was held at the airport.
ABC News sent a lot of news crews from other countries to Beijing. At any point then, we had four or six news crews covering the historic events in rotations.
Do you think, despite their legitimate anti-corruption protests, the students were actually threatening China’s socio-economic stability?
Some of the Beijing students had banners saying: “Welcome Mr. Gorbachev” and others were asking for glasnost (the current political reforms). The students did not know when to stop. They should have consolidated their gains. Then there was a lull.
ABC News called me to New York and they offered me a job as a news producer, because they said they wanted to expand in China. At that point, looking at the Philippines, which was then unstable, I decided to join them.
Where were you exactly during the crackdown on the protesters on June 4?
I wasn’t in Beijing, I was in New York. I arrived later in June 6 or 7, 1989, when Deng met the martial law troops to congratulate them. I saw it on Chinese TV.
So, can you summarize what really happened at Tiananmen, from your perspective?
First, the students went overboard. Second, the Community party leadership was splitting and it had also already affected the army. Third, there were already calls to overthrow Deng and the party. Then they declared martial law on May 20.
The young Chito Sta. Romana, Ericson Baculinao and Jaime FlorCruz form a gang of three beside a Mao Tse-tung mural:""Thirty percent of Mao's acts were errors, including the Great Leap Forward which became the great leap backward, and the Cultural Revolution."
According to reports, they flew in elite troops from the provinces and the order was “to recover Tiananmen Square from the counter-revolutionaries” with tanks, armored personnel carriers (APCs) and soldiers.
Did your news team win the Emmy award for that coverage?
No, my news team won our Emmy as part of an ABC News special millennium report, not the Tiananmen events. It was fellow former student activist Eric
Baculinao whose team got an Emmy award for the NBC News coverage of the whole Tiananmen story.
Although bloodshed is a human tragedy nobody wants, in retrospect, can we say that Deng Xiaoping was correct because he stabilized China from possible chaos and ensured
I think the verdict is not yet final. I think the students were experiencing genuine sentiments or wish for democracy and anti-corruption, also complaints against inflation.
How would you personally assess what happened in 1989?
My thinking is it’s a case of the student protesters being an irresistible force and the government being an invincible object. But in Deng’s evaluation in the future, this is one of the black marks on his legacy.
After Deng consolidated stability in June 1989, he pushed for bolder economic reforms which, in a sense, answered the students’ demands on the economic side, but it’s still a long way to go on political democracy.
Isn’t political democracy first before economic democracy a dangerous modern-day Western idea, which failed the former Soviet Union in the case of Gorbachev’s glasnost? Wasn’t Deng wiser for pushing economic reforms and liberation of the masses from poverty first, while keeping a tight grip on politics for stability?
Gorbachev was indeed weak on economics. The Russian leadership tried, they wanted a sudden economic transformation which resulted in economic collapse.
Deng Xiaoping was wiser in the sense that he followed the Chinese proverb, which says: “Cross the river by feeling the stones,” which means a gradual shift. Deng started experimenting with bold market-oriented economic reforms first in agriculture, then the special economic zones in the coastal regions, before he started applying them nationally. Historically, Deng Xiaoping was more successful.
I think China’s prioritizing of economic reforms before any talk of future political democracy, wasn’t that the path of other developed nations as well? Britain was under an absolute monarchy during its Industrial Revolution. Germany, France, Japan under Emperor Meiji, South Korea under Park Chung Hee, Taiwan under the Chiang family and Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew; all had pursued economic reforms first before tinkering with political openness.
Except us here in the Philippines… Even postwar Japan prospered under the nonstop rule of the same ruling party the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) for decades. Many Asian nations indeed pursued the path of economic progress first before political democracy.
Your fellow student activist Jaime FlorCruz of CNN said you saw the legendary Zhou Enlai in person?
Yes, that was in 1971 at the National Day reception at the Great Hall of the People. We not only saw Zhou Enlai, we had a toast. Mao Tse-tung’s wife Jiang Qing was also there, and the infamous Gang of Four behind the Cultural Revolution.
It was right after the September Lin Biao incident, so there were no speeches in that dinner. Zhou and the other leaders toasted every table. I was 23 years old then and I toasted Zhou with China’s famous but difficult-to-drink fiery maotai wine.
Is it true that Lin Biao attempted a coup?
What we know (is that) Lin was on a plane flying over Mongolia when it lacked fuel and crashed. China authorities said he was on the way to the Soviet Union, that it was a defection after an attempted coup against Mao by bombing his train was discovered. Lin Biao’s daughter supposedly spilled the beans on the plot.
Why would Lin Biao do that, when he was already next in line to Mao as successor?
Lin Biao was more of a leftist. He disagreed with Mao and Zhou Enlai in their policy to befriend US President Richard Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Lin disagreed with China’s shift in foreign policy.
Wow, you toasted with Zhou Enlai whom Kissinger said was one of the greatest leaders he has ever met. What about the legendary Deng Xiaoping?
Yes, I have personally seen him. It was around 1973 or 1974 when Deng Xiaoping had just come back to power after an earlier political purge. I saw him in the summer garden soirees in Beijing.
The Chinese people were curious about him. Deng just got back to power and they didn’t know how to react to him, the people were still keeping some distance from him. Deng was greeting the Chinese people and also us, the foreigners.
Your impressions of Zhou Enlai? Theodore White wrote that Zhou spoke Mandarin, French and English well?
The most impressive was Zhou Enlai, mainly due to his diplomacy and his political survival. I think it showed his political skills and his ability to unite others.
Zhou also knew his place and never tried to overshadow Mao, and he was the consummate diplomat who knew how to defend his country’s interests.
Reporter in action: The award-winning journalist with a cameraman.
Have you personally seen the legend himself Mao Tse-tung, the poet revolutionary?
Chairman Mao was then basically always staying in the Zhongnanhai government compound of Beijing. We only saw him at his funeral in 1976. We, the foreigners in the city, paid our respects. We also did that at the funeral of Premier Zhou in the same year.
I read the world’s biggest earthquake of the 20th century in terms of death toll happened in July 1976 in Tangshan City prior to the death of Chairman Mao. There’s an ancient Chinese belief that great calamities are precursors of dynastic change. Where were you during that quake so near Beijing?
Luckily for us, we were in Hunan province when that earthquake happened on July 28. We were not immediately allowed to go back to Beijing. We only returned after Mao died on Sept. 9, and I saw some people were still sleeping out in the streets of Beijing because of their fear of aftershocks.
A lot of student activists of your generation idolized Mao Tse-tung, but after the Cultural Revolution and his mistakes were subsequently revealed following his death. How do you assess him now? How will history judge Mao?
Seventy percent of his acts Mao did very well and 30 percent of his acts were errors — that is the assessment of his peers.
The Chinese Communist Party’s judgment was that Mao’s contributions were: he won the war against the Japanese invaders, won the revolution against Chiang Kai-Shek and he founded the People’s Republic. He was like China’s Abraham Lincoln. His errors included the Great Leap Forward (which became the great leap backward) and the Cultural Revolution.
In exile during the cultural revolution
You were exiled in China during the height of the cataclysmic ultra-leftist Cultural Revolution. How was your life then? How did you spend your days?
I was there during the final years of the Cultural Revolution from 1971 to 1976. We were touring China as a visiting delegation. The Chinese students went to the rural farms, so we couldn’t meet our peers. Of the Filipino students in the trip, five of us remained.
We volunteered to work with the Chinese people. The Chinese were very considerate, so we were only scheduled for half-day work, but it was already tiring for us. So we spent our time in half-day Chinese language study and half-day work. We had a language tutor. We also spent some time teaching English.
Is it true that other foreign students in China then went with you to work in the farms and that some Iranian students even had lipstick and high heels while harvesting? How were the other foreign students handling it?
Yes, those Iranian classmates were in heels and lipstick doing summer harvests in the farms, so it was quite a scene. They were royalty sent by the Shah of Iran regime to study Mandarin in Beijing.
There were European students from Cambridge University in UK; there were Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Finnish and others who were very good in classical Chinese but they couldn’t speak contemporary Mandarin. The Chinese joked it was if these Europeans just stepped out of the Ming Tombs, due to their mastery of classical Chinese.
There were many Vietnamese students and we were studying when Saigon fell in 1975, and I remember we were at the school cafeteria congratulating them for the end of the Vietnam War.
What colorful memories do you have of your fellow foreign students studying Mandarin?
The Africans were the most happy-go-lucky. They drank a lot of alcohol and danced a lot on weekends. The Albanians were interesting, they were fond of the Beatles’ music and kept playing loud music.
The North Koreans all dressed the same way. When a North Korean in the cafeteria ordered milk, all other North Koreans ordered the same too. They really had tight discipline. They moved in groups. I remember the North Korean students all had a pin of their leader Kim Il Sung on their upper shirt pockets, close to their hearts.
There was no e-mail, social media sites or texting then. How did you communicate with your parents and kin?
It was hard to communicate. Our letters were coursed through the US, Hong Kong or abroad.
I read that during the Cultural Revolution, there were a lot of political purges and even violence? Were you terrified?
Good morning, America: Chito with colleague Diane Sawyer and his wife Nancy
How could you not be terrified? There was an atmosphere of fear. They’d tell us there were still class enemies around, that we had to be careful always, even when going to the Friendship Store. But nothing untoward happened to me during that period.
Did you see any fighting or political purges?
We just saw the political wall posters in the train stations, but we didn’t actually see any actual clashes… You know, up to now, the music of the revolutionary ballets the
White-Haired Girl and the
Red Detachment of Women, we could still hum the songs. We saw them so many times, because those were the only entertainment then.
Back home, was it true you had an identical twin brother who was arrested during martial law in the Philippines due to your activism?
I have a twin brother Nelin. When martial law was declared, a warrant of arrest was served at our home during that first night. My parents answered the door and told the arresting officers:
“Chito is not here, he’s in China. Who do you want to arrest?”
It turned out the arrest warrant was for Nelin. My twin brother used to be a former Christian La Salle brother novitiate, but he had left and then he was active with the progressive Christians. He was also with Senator Jose Diokno’s civil liberties group.
So your twin brother Nelin was jailed?
He was detained together with Ninoy Aquino, Jose Diokno, Chino Roces, Louie Beltran, Amando Doronila, Ramon Mitra, Jr., Concon people, etc.
Martial law’s top enforcer was Defense Secretary Juan Ponce Enrile. Various people tell me that Enrile’s new book should be in bookstores’ “fiction” category due to allegedly inaccurate tales? Your comments?
Some parts of the Enrile book are controversial. I think the debate will definitely continue, though the editor is my good friend, and it’s certainly not his fault if there are inaccuracies; it’s due to the author, Enrile.
I believe people in power or close to power should be encouraged to write their memoirs in order to explain their historical roles. President Marcos, Ninoy, Cory, Diokno and others, it would have been more interesting if they had authored memoirs.
By the way, why is your twin brother’s name Nelin? Was he named after Russia’s Communist revolutionary Lenin?
No, it’s his nickname because his full name is Leonardo Sta. Romana. He was named after our paternal grandfather who was a farmer and educator. Our parents are from Nueva Ecija.
Where in Nueva Ecija province? I read that General Antonio Luna was assassinated by Emilio Aguinaldo’s presidential guards outside the church in Cabanatuan City?
We’re from Cabanatuan and our home is just 15 minutes from the church and plaza where General Luna was killed. That plaza is now called Plaza Lucero, named after our maternal grandfather Senator Santiago Lucero. My real name is Santiago, I was named after him and Chito is my nickname.
Was Marcos similar to President Aguinaldo, both strong leaders but with their share of controversies? Aguinaldo rivals Andres Bonifacio and Antonio Luna were killed in controversial circumstances.
It’s hard to compare Aguinaldo with Marcos; in my opinion, Marcos exceeded him.
What do you think was the biggest shortcoming of President Marcos that led to his fall?
I guess Marcos stayed too long, and he became too corrupt.
How do you assess President Cory C. Aquino?
Cory was the icon of democracy. She restored the democratic system that existed before martial law. She brought back freedom of speech, freedom of the press and free elections, but her problem was how to consolidate the military and political stability. Ultimately, the challenge also was economic development.
Did you get to meet President Fidel V. Ramos, and how do you assess him?
I met FVR several times in China because of his state visits and later for his joining the Boao Forum. Ramos is very interested in China’s economy. He wanted to transform the Philippines using China’s economic experiences and he was able to push our economy forward.
What about ex-President Erap Estrada?
Yes, I also met Erap in China when he was still vice president. He had voted against the US military bases, he has a nationalistic streak and he upheld an independent foreign policy for the Philippines. In that sense, officials in China were watching him closely.
Erap successfully promoted better China ties, but his government didn’t last long enough. I think Erap was very keen on learning China’s poverty reduction success.
Is it true what Western experts say, that China’s government has liberated the biggest number of people from poverty and in the shortest period in human history?
The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund said that China has successfully reduced the poverty rate of its people from 85 percent of the population to 15 percent from 1980 to 2009 — using their international standards of measure. That translates into half a billion people freed from absolute poverty; it’s really a remarkable achievement.
What about ex-President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, have you met her?
Actually, I’ve met GMA once or twice during her state visits. She’s very interested in China and for our country to have close ties. Unfortunately, bilateral ties got involved in corruption cases which affected the development of those ties. If there was no element of corruption, we could have benefited more. I think she had a problem with the US, then she made a swing towards China. We need good relationships with both China and the US.
What about President Noynoy’s father Senator Ninoy Aquino. Did you ever meet him?
I knew Ninoy when I was a student leader. He was a very articulate and very political character. He was also a journalist before. Ninoy was quite a character, an engaging character. He talked about a lot of things, and it was hard to predict what he would do next. He was definitely a politician of the highest order. And in politics, it matters how one dies, and to his credit, he died a martyr’s death.
I forgot to ask if you ever met Cory personally?
I met Cory at the wake of my late younger sister Chona. My mom Celina Lucero Sta. Romana and our aunts also went to St. Scholastica College like Cory, so they were either classmates or schoolmates. Cory was then preparing for her state visit to China, and she asked me questions.
Cory was obviously a very intelligent woman. She asked me general and specific questions about China, from its weather to its political system. She was very curious to understand China and its economy. She asked about Deng Xiaioping and his reforms.
I recall that after retracing her Cojuangco ancestral roots in Hongchiam village in Fujian, south China, she had a high-level meeting with Deng Xiaoping?
Cory and Deng met in Beijing. In fact, when Deng was starting to smoke a cigarette, he politely asked her if it was okay for him to smoke. Cory said it was all right, but she said that during her Cabinet meetings, smoking was not allowed; so Deng smoked only one stick and refrained afterwards.
It was in that meeting of Deng and Cory that he proposed shelving the sovereignty issue over the Spratly Islands and he proposed the pragmatic idea of engaging in joint or common exploration for resources. He said: “We should let our future generations handle that issue, because they will be smarter than us.”
Your assessment of President Noynoy Aquino?
I’m surprised at the extent of his popular vote in the 2010 election, it shows the overwhelming desire of the people to get a government that is clean and honest. His win was also the result of the impact of his mother Cory’s death, the “Cory magic.” If he could continue on his path of upholding clean government, it’s possible we’ll have the makings of an economic take-off — if he could sustain it.
What about President Noynoy Aquino’s handling of our diplomatic ties with China, do you think he doesn’t fully understand the changing realities there since he has never been there except once during his state visit last year? Or maybe it’s his foreign affairs officials who do not understand China?
I can only speak in general terms. His political advisers and his staff have asked my advice about China. I think a deeper understanding and broader advice are needed. Any problems I think basically result from a lack of understanding.
The ideal foreign policy for our country is to be friends to all and enemies to none. Just because we have a strategic alliance with the United States doesn’t mean China should be an enemy, because even the US itself has very friendly diplomatic and economic relations with China. The US and China are economically so intertwined, the Americans are not interested in any conflicts with China.
Your recommendation of having strong ties with both the US and China, that’s also the policy of our many Asian neighbors.
All our ASEAN neighbors maintain strong ties with both the US and China — not making enemies with either — even Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore. All of these countries handle their diplomatic ties with China very well.
We really don’t need to be confrontational with China. If we want to assert our sovereignty, do it in a non-confrontational way but through diplomacy. You should clearly separate the sovereignty issue on one side, and rebuild our diplomatic and economic ties with China.
So you mean it’s best not to keep arguing with China about the islets issue in public, at every international conference or via the media?
The problem is, if you put the sovereignty issue front and center always, the public in China and the public in the Philippines will look at each other with mutual hostility.
In their social media at the height of the sovereignty dispute, their netizens in the social media were asking others not to buy our Philippine bananas.
With diplomats in Beijing:Then Ambassador to China Sonia Brady is flanked by Chito and Nancy Sta. Romana , Jaime and Ana FlorCruz and cameramen Claro Cortes of Reuters and Gamay Palacios of ABC.
We need to compartmentalize the sovereignty issue and not always debate with China officials about it in all our meetings. If you publicly challenge them on issues they consider as “core issues,” like sovereignty, they’ll push back.
Next month, China is electing its new leaders led by Xi Jinping as the expected new president. How do you assess him and the next set of leaders?
Xi Jinping used to be the Communist Party leader in Fujian and Zhejiang provinces, in Shanghai City — all of these are eastern, coastal and export-oriented regions at the forefront of economic reforms. He has the makings of a pragmatist leader, but he is not yet a Deng Xiaoping or a Mao Tse-tung, so he still needs to consolidate power.
I still think China is at a crossroads, whether to proceed on the existing path of peaceful development, or to take a path of more nationalism. What the party congress will show next month is prioritizing peaceful development.
I also think Xi Jinping, the next leader, has to show that he has the courage or the ability to defend China’s national sovereignty when it is challenged. He needs time to consolidate power, before he can leave an imprint of his personality.
So do you think our Philippine politicians should minimize antagonistic actuations towards China in order to boost the pragmatists in the Communist party leadership and not to boost any hardliners?
We have to deal with China in ways that will encourage the pragmatic and moderate policies, the reformist approach to problems both domestic and international. For if we use the brinkmanship or confrontational approach with China, it will only strengthen the hardline position.
For the sake of our Philippine national interests, it is better to use wise and smart diplomacy. We can see the examples in our neighbors Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and even Vietnam, how they carry out their diplomacy with China so well.
Isn’t it impressive that a one-party state like China can institutionalize an orderly transfer of power and set term limits, unlike other socialist dictatorships?
The opportunity for new leaders led by Xi Jinping to crop up, it’s due to Deng Xiaoping’s having instituted term limits. It was Jiang Zemin who first followed this, then President Hu Jintao. This will be the fifth generation of leaders, but the retired leaders can still influence behind the scenes.
So it was Deng who modernized China economically and ensured political stability, while Mao Tse-tung was the great yet flawed founder of the People’s Republic?
No doubt Chairman Mao was a successful strategist and revolutionary who built the foundations of a new China. His problem was in building a socialist society. He was clear in his admirable vision of an egalitarian society, but (as for) how to build a modern society, he was too utopian.
Like in Mao’s “Great Leap Forward,” the problem was he used methods that were too rash and too extreme. In the case of Deng Xiaoping, he knew. He didn’t use Mao’s methods, nor those of Stalin, nor those of Gorbachev.
Do you think some Western criticism that China totally has no democracy is too simplistic? I read they’re trying to modernize their party via reforms?
I think in China now, there is inner party democracy happening first; they’re now electing their leaders within the ruling party. They’re experimenting, but definitely it’s not going to be a Western-style political democracy.
Throughout your nearly four decades of exile in China, what were your worst crises?
When my younger brother passed away in 1975 and when my father died in 1977, I was away and couldn’t be present at their funerals.
Another crisis for me was when my Philippine passport expired and I couldn’t go to the Philippine Embassy because there was a pending case against me and other student activists on allegedly “inciting to sedition.” I couldn’t travel overseas.
What was the first thing you did upon returning? Where did you go?
I went home, to our old house in Mandaluyong. They had a welcoming party, and I was very happy to be back.
Was returning home to the Philippines your dream during your many years in political exile?
Yes, after the fall of Marcos and even after I stayed on in Beijing to work for ABC News, I came home every Christmas.
Have you read the famous ancient poem by the Tang Dynasty poet Li Bai about his looking out the window at the moon every night and thinking about his hometown? All Chinese kids study and memorize that poem.
Yes, I knew that poem and it always reminded me of home. I took a class in classical Chinese poetry, and studied the great Tang Dynasty poets like Li Bai and Du Fu.
What are lessons we in the Philippines can learn from China’s “economic miracle” of the past three decades?
The key to national progress is to have a coherent vision, so if P-Noy just continues with his “tuwid na daan” or “straight path” policy, that will be good for the Philippines.
We should also learn from China’s bold opening up to foreign investors and technologies. But the Chinese don’t open up indiscriminately, they know how to choose where to open up and how to protect their national interests; they know how to strike a balance.
Another lesson from modernizing China: good leadership is the most important key ingredient for national progress.
Any other recommended ways to improve our problematic diplomacy with China?
We have to learn to deal with China. If we assert sovereignty on one side, let us continue to still push forward our diplomatic, economic and cultural relations, too; we shouldn’t mix up both sides.
In diplomacy, not just public diplomacy, we also need quiet and private diplomacy. When Asians deal with each other, “face” is important for the Chinese and for East Asians.
If you were president of the Philippines for just one day, what would you want to change?
I would want to change our China policy, but now it’s going in the right direction. I hope that our country will have a more truly independent foreign policy, so that we can be friends equally with the US and China, and gain economic benefits from both. I want to change and improve our China policy, because that’s my forte and expertise.
What about our laws?
Oh my God, that’s tough. Being a journalist, I am for the passage of the Freedom of Information (FOI) bill, because we need that for good governance and for fighting corruption. I am also for changing the Cybercrime bill.
Can you share details of how your news team won an Emmy award?
We won the Emmy for our millennium telecast during the New Year’s Eve (celebrations) of 1999. ABC News had a worldwide 24-hour newscast. We were reporting from Shanghai with its spectacular fireworks; we also did TV reports on the origins of fireworks in ancient China. That won us the award.
You’re highly educated academically, and in experience, you were an idealistic student leader before. Will you someday run for public office?
No. My only desire is to share what I know about China, and to reach out to the decision-makers to promote mutual understanding and friendship between our two countries.
Philippine STAR columnist Boo Chanco wrote that you and Oishi/Liwayway boss Carlos Chan are the most ideal diplomatic negotiators for China. Your comments?
I don’t seek any government position, but I’ll help in any way I can. The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) diplomats are capable. I’m willing to do whatever is asked of me.
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